Wine Critics - blunders galore! Daniel Rogov is my favorite.

[Serge Birbrair]

Who is your favorite offender and which offense you remember the most?

[Thomas]

When Parker claimed that any wine producer who doesn't send him wine to review obviously produces crap. You can't come up with a better thing to say to make yourself appear arrogant.

[Serge Birbrair]

Thomas, this is Arrogance with the Capital A! Some of those critics are either stupid (which I doubt) or just don't care that their comments send the wine prices thru the roof and it pays disservice to consumers. I preffer wines either not rated or rated by critics like Daniel Rogov, whose scores don't move markets one single shekel, and this includes even Israeli wines.

[Thomas]

Hell, I don't even give scores and my reviews don't move markets either

Wine critics are simply gaming the geeks. They know how to tweak and push buttons, and some even know how to remove the competition: they hire them. But critics in any field often succumb to their innate arrogance--you have to start with arrogance to think that you are the arbiter of taste and everyone should listen to you.

Of course, I've never followed anyone, so I could be just plain irritable...

[Henrik Koudahl]

I am just wondering why on Monday I am hiring a well known wine journalist in Denmark to market our winery and wines....

[MalContent]

Our story starts in late January, when Daniel Rogov, lamenting his dire straits, posted the following:

http://stratsplace.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=13168

Please note the dates. A prominent member of Rogov's forum did. From January 17th to the 23rd, at least, Daniel Rogov was incapacitated with the flu.

Then a few months later comes this thread:

http://stratsplace.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=13842

Rogov replies with a lengthy collection of tasting notes for Kosher Bordeaux wines from 2003. We all paid little attention until this post by member goldy:

"Daniel. I am curious about your tn for the 2003 Smith Haut lafitte. The importer assures me that this wine does not exist. Do you have any possible explanations?"

This eventually, after a second prompt by goldy, solicited the following response from Rogov:

"With regard to the 2003 Smith Haut Lafitte, I checked my tasting notes carefully and did taste the wine on two occasions, first at a trade tasting of Bordeaux and then after having a bottle sent to me from a French merchant. Contacts in Bordeaux inform me that the wine was made only in a miniscule quantity from that vintage year and that distribution was limited entirely to France. "

This was strange. The forum member I had mentioned before had by now noticed that the second date, when he had supposedly tasted the wine at home, was for the 'flu week', so he checked the other date and this is what he found:

http://stratsplace.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=12992

Note the date of the thread at the top. On December 28th, Rogov was definitely in Israel and not in Bordeaux. And lest you think he could have caught a plane from Bordeaux in time, no way, Jose, no direct flights from Bordeaux to Tel Aviv.

An anonymous post was made (since deleted by Rogov) asking Rogov how sure he was of his facts which prompted a savage attack by Rogov (also deleted), who called the poster a paranoid and suggested behavorial drugs. Somewhat offended, the forum member emailed the winery who confirmed that no kosher wine had been produced in 2003. The anonymous poster again commented and was again attacked by Rogov (both posts deleted) at which point the winery was made aware of what was going on via email. They contacted Rogov and eventually Rogov posted this retraction:

http://stratsplace.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=14246

Now, some food for thought.

I can accept the notion that critics err. I can understand that a tasting note may have the wrong date attached to it or that the vintage may be wrong. But look, he tasted the wine twice, he got the vintage wrong twice and in both cases the same wrong vintage. He gets the tasting date wrong twice and in each case he is reading his own handwriting, not a stranger's. He also claims to have re-examined his notes and he still got it all wrong. Does that sound credible? In addition, let's examine his claim that "Contacts in Bordeaux inform me that the wine was made only in a miniscule quantity from that vintage year and that distribution was limited entirely to France.". What the hell? Now, he might have gotten the vintage wrong before but he knows he's supposed to be asking about 2003 and his contacts' answer seems detailed enough. I can;t understand how his contracts in Bordeaux got the vinbtage wrong too. There's something very odd here...

Anyway, note the date for the Malmaison 2003: also January 19. Because now we come to the present where a further wrinkle is introduced.

http://stratsplace.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=16119

Look, the guy (Gavriel) was only asking about the Malmaison, no one had ever accused Rogov of anything regarding this wine. Only the Smith Haut Lafitte was questioned. Yet he immediately goes into a speech about both the Smith Haut Lafitte and the Malmaison. Why? Does he know something we don't about the Malmaison note? And look at his venomous reaction when confonted again. For a man who claims not to understand sports, he sure knows how to play the man and not the ball!

"Meir
May I strongly suggest that you follow Bernhard Ingham's little aphorism to the effect that "Many have fallen for conspiracy theories . I do assure you that they would do much better if they adhered to the cock-up theory.”

I'll even make you a small wager, that to the effect that when you, I and others stop making occasional mistakes that will be a sure sign that we are dead. I'll also make you a small deal - when you start tasting 15,000+ wines a year instead of a few every week it will be interesting to see how many errors you make on your little blog.

But be thee of good faith in your conspiracy theories, for it is true that even paranoids have real enemies.

With no apologies at all for my sarcasm
Rogov"

[Henrik Koudahl]

Thomas, this is Arrogance with the Capital A! Some of those critics are either stupid (which I doubt) or just don't care that their comments send the wine prices thru the roof and it pays disservice to consumers. I preffer wines either not rated or rated by critics like Daniel Rogov, whose scores don't move markets one single shekel, and this includes even Israeli wines.

No matter how serious Daniel Rogov are working would 99,9% of my clients not know who he is.

There are a few journalist who can generate sales in Denmark. Also we had notice by talking with other importers that god ratings are not generating so much sales as it did in the past.

[Serge Birbrair]

I think Rogov makes up the stories on the fly,
I caught him several times posting as some new member and asking him questions a-la "Dorothy Dix"

His other story about him meeting Soviet Marshall Zhukov and drinking 1682 Tokaji with him is just another improbable story on the go.

I am not a poor man and I will gladly bet $500,000 US with ANYBODY,
Daniel Rogov included,
that this story is just a lie!

Welcome aboard, BTW!

[Serge Birbrair]

No matter how serious Daniel Rogov are working would 99,9% of my clients not know who he is.

There are a few journalist who can generate sales in Denmark. Also we had notice by talking with other importers that god ratings are not generating so much sales as it did in the past.

Henrik, you are one sharp businessman and, as you recall, I was willing to invest $$$ based on your business qualities!

Way to go, my friend!

[MalContent]

Someone in Israel told me that several times he heard Rogov telling a story about an old lady who invited him to see some bottles she found in the boydem (attic in Israeli). Turned out it was a case of Mouton 1945. Nice story except another time it was Latour 1961.

I know, it's insignificant in itself.

I heard the story about Zhokov too. He backed it up by an obscure reference in an article by Hugh Johnson. Sounds like an urban myth because why would a top-brass General in political exile risk his life by inviting an American General for a visit?

[Henrik Koudahl]

Hell, I don't even give scores and my reviews don't move markets either

Wine critics are simply gaming the geeks. They know how to tweak and push buttons, and some even know how to remove the competition: they hire them.

Thomas, I had a friend who once told me; drink with the few sell to the masses!

The major sale in a wineshop is not made from wine rated by Parker etc. It's made by the reputation you have created to your costumer.

[Serge Birbrair]

Someone in Israel told me that several times he heard Rogov telling a story about an old lady who invited him to see some bottles she found in the boydem (attic in Israeli). Turned out it was a case of Mouton 1945. Nice story except another time it was Latour 1961.

I know, it's insignificant in itself.

I heard the story about Zhokov too. He backed it up by an obscure reference in an article by Hugh Johnson. Sounds like an urban myth because why would a top-brass General in political exile risk his life by inviting an American General for a visit?

MalContent,
I am smirking you using the word Boydem

Back in Russia, we used the Yiddish expression:
"Mansy Boydem"
(Tales from the attick) as a synonim of...lies!



It's late, "The unbearable lightness of being" DVD is waiting for me,
but tomorrow I'll post WHY my 1/2 a mil bet is a safe bet,
and WHY no chance in the world the event Daniel Rogov insinuates took place could never happen.

[Serge Birbrair]

Thomas, I had a friend who once told me; drink with the few sell to the masses!

The major sale in a wineshop is not made from wine rated by Parker etc. It's made by the reputation you have created to your costumer.

This is NOT exactly what I said!!!

I said:
sell to the masses, drink with the classes!

[Henrik Koudahl]

This is NOT exactly what I said!!!

I said:
sell to the masses, drink with the classes!

I am a countryboy......

[Thomas]

I am at a disadvantage. I don't know who this Rovog person is.

I guess that's what happens when you don't follow critics. You don't even know who they are.

[MalContent]

You didn't miss much.

[Henrik Koudahl]

Thomas, No doubt that winejournalist play a role in the winebusiness. Sometimes they are playing the lead role and sometimes they are used by the wineindustri.

I have a good friend here in Denmark who is a wellknow Spindoctor on the political scene in Denmark. We have made the agrement about making tastings in 2008 called "Wine and Spin". A tasting where he would have focus of spin in the wineworld.

We all use winejournalist in our work - but in the end if our client don't get the wine they expect ---- they move on to the next wineshop....

I don't know how common the word "spin" is the english language so I taken this from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_relations

Spin

In public relations, spin is a sometimes pejorative term signifying a heavily biased portrayal in one's own favor of an event or situation. While traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics. Politicians are often accused of spin by commentators and political opponents, when they produce a counter argument or position.

The techniques of "spin" include:

Selectively presenting facts and quotes that support one's position (cherry picking)
Non-denial denial
Phrasing in a way that assumes unproven truths
Euphemisms to disguise or promote one's agenda
Ambiguity
Skirting
Rejecting the validity of hypotheticals
Appealing to internal policies
Another spin technique involves careful choice of timing in the release of certain news so it can take advantage of prominent events in the news. A famous reference to this practice occurred when British Government press officer Jo Moore used the phrase It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury, (widely paraphrased or misquoted as "It's a good day to bury bad news"), in an email sent on September 11, 2001. The furor caused when this email was reported in the press eventually caused her to resign.


[edit] Spin doctor
Skilled practitioners of spin are sometimes called "spin doctors", though probably not to their faces unless it is said facetiously. It is the PR equivalent of calling a writer a "hack". Perhaps the most well-known person in the UK often described as a "spin doctor" is Alastair Campbell, who was involved with Tony Blair's public relations between 1994 and 2003, and also played a controversial role as press relations officer to the British and Irish Lions rugby union side during their 2005 tour of New Zealand.

State-run media in many countries also engage in spin by selectively allowing news stories that are favorable to the government while censoring anything that could be considered critical. They may also use propaganda to indoctrinate or actively influence citizens' opinions.
[edit] Other

[Serge Birbrair]

As I promised, let's go over some tales from the boydem.

From Rogov's Ramblings

I have been fascinated by the wines of Tokaji ever since 1958 when I tasted from a bottle from the 1682 vintage that had survived after having been buried in the cellar of a building that was destroyed during World War II. The company was excellent and included among others Marshal Zhukov of the Soviet Union, General Alan Shapley of the U.S. Marine Corps, two of the leading dancers of the Bolshoi Ballet, and Serge Jaroff, then the choirmaster of the Don Cossack Chorus who had brought six of his most exhuberant dancers with him. If the truth be told, the dancers and singers danced and sang and the tasting was restricted to the two generals, a smaller group of generals and colonels and the assistants to the two leading generals. I was fortunate enough to be General Shapley's secretary at the time and, as were all of us was fascinated by the thought of drinking a wine that had survived so long.

Let's examine who were the key tasters:

The Host,
Marshall Zhukov.

Zhukov supported the interests of the military and disagreed with Khrushchev's policy. Khrushchev, demonstrating the dominance of the Party over the army, relieved Zhukov of his ministry and expelled him from the Central Committee in October 1957.

What does it mean when the once commander of the army, member of the Communist Party Central Committee is falling out of grace in 1957?
It means only one thing,
no freaking way he could
1) organize the party in 1958 of the magnitude Rogov said he did
2) invite an American General he never met few short years before Cuban Missile Crisis and Gary Powers got shot down in U2 spy plane over USSR.

As is evident from Wikipedia,
Marshal Zhukov served Front Commander in Europe,
while General Alan Shapley was just a major in 1941 and served in..Pacifics!
I asked Rogov's in private how was it possible that the Major and Marshall knew each other while being 1000's of miles apart in ranks and geographical locations. I still wait for an answer.

Conclusion:
If it looks like red herring, smells like red herring and swims like red herring -
than this is the red herring.

Spoon of 1189 Tokaji anyone?
I have it in my basement, found by Genghis Khan on his way to Europe and brought to me by Warren Buffet with whom we have lunches every 24th of the months so I could advise him on his investments.

Don't smirk, our meetings are highly classified, just like the alleged meetings between Marshall Zhukov and Major Alan Shapley, and all the minutes of the meetings will be available to the public 150 years after the materials of Kennedy assasination are published. Sit and wait, the facts will erase the smirks of disbelief from your faces...200 years from now.

[MalContent]

Off Topic:

Rogov had a date with Joan Baez

I fail to see how he could have been bored by someone who was good enough for Bob Dylan, someone I would estimate to be at least as intelligent and creative as Daniel Rogov.

More about Rogov's creativity to follow. We don't want this thread to be restricted to just one critic.

[Serge Birbrair]

MalContent, not a biggie, I had a date with Marylin Monroe once but she almost suffocated me with her boobs,
things like this happen every day. I met her on my way home from lunch with Warren Buffet. She was hiking for a ride.

[Serge Birbrair]

One of my most favorite wine critics snafus of all time is the feud between Robert Parker and James Laube over Château Montelena.
Laube gives it 60 points while Parker 95 +/-

I had 1994 Chateau Montelena few days ago at Wynn in Las Vegas and....
if this is 60 points wine, I don't mind a few truck loads at $9 a bottle, and I am generous offering that much for 60 points wine!

[Serge Birbrair]

Not exactly on the subject but nevertheless:
The "secret" all wine critics know

[Henrik Koudahl]

http://stratsplace.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=15729

[Serge Birbrair]

http://stratsplace.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=15729

I just been alerted by a pegion courier and 2 Department of Defense guys at the door that Rogov questions my questions....

Let's examine the evidence presented by Rogov.
http://www.decanter.com/archive/article.php?id=109910

Almost the first thing the Nazis did when they marched into Warsaw in 1939 was to steal the Tokaji from the famous Fukier cellars.

..and according to Rogov the bottles were from the building destroyed in the war.

What happened to them subsequently is the mystery – still being played out; with the last confirmed sighting in 1958, when the Soviet Marshal Zhukov gave an American general some of the 1668.

According to Rogov the vintage was 1682

This stuff has Urban Legend writing all over it. Provenance doesn't match, vintage doesn't match, and the esteemed Rogov wants us to beleive that "Zhukov Tasting with him present" existed!?
C'mon. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Hugh Johnson who does know Rogov in person and worked with him, have heard this story from...Rogov!,
just like you heard about me having lunches with Warren Buffet, so if you put it in your blogs, I'll use it as the proof.

C'mon, Rogov, who do you think we are for you to insult our intelligence in such a blutant way?

[Serge Birbrair]

Let's examine the second "proof" presented by Rogov
http://www.wein-plus.com/magazine/Hu...ny_ih3016.html

No mentioning of the event in question
no mentioning of Generals in question
no mentioning of vintage in question

Rogov, have you learned the art of presenting evidence from Goebbels or did you learn it from Iraqi ex-Information minister?

I know, I know, you wrote this piece in 1993, looong before Google days when
anybody can check the facts with just few key strokes.

I understand your desire of preserving this myth integrity but....
if it smells like fish, swims like fish, came from boydem and told by the wine critic who tastes wines which wineries confirm never been produced,
(what was the name of that Kosher French wine?)
then this isn't a chicken, this is red herring.

The truth will set you free, do you have the balls to admit your imagination played a trick on you, just like it did with the wines you tasted which were never produced?

Pssst....the Australians just confirmed they never sent the barrel sample to Israel. How did you get yours?